1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:18,560
Good morning everybody.

2
00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,440
On Monday night of this week at 9 o'clock New York time, NBC on its Monday night at the

3
00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,100
movies presented something called the UFO Incident.

4
00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:29,100
This is a story that was based on the incredible story told by a New Hampshire couple about

5
00:00:29,100 --> 00:00:30,780
15 years ago.

6
00:00:30,780 --> 00:00:35,420
You might recall that in 1961 two people, Betty and Barney Hill, claimed that they were taken

7
00:00:35,420 --> 00:00:41,220
on board an alien spacecraft examined by alien beings and then released unharmed.

8
00:00:41,220 --> 00:00:46,660
Understandably, at the time back in 1961 this story caused a great deal of skepticism but

9
00:00:46,660 --> 00:00:51,220
in the years between 1961 and the present some startling evidence has been found to

10
00:00:51,220 --> 00:00:56,420
indicate that most or all of the story told by the Hills is 100% true.

11
00:00:56,420 --> 00:00:59,980
Betty Hill is my guest on the program this morning and she'll join us in just a couple

12
00:00:59,980 --> 00:01:00,980
of minutes.

13
00:01:00,980 --> 00:01:11,140
The story begins from December 19th of 1961 and here is Betty Hill, the lady who supposedly

14
00:01:11,140 --> 00:01:16,900
was on board an alien spacecraft, saw humanoids and had an experience that she will never

15
00:01:16,900 --> 00:01:17,900
forget.

16
00:01:17,900 --> 00:01:18,900
Welcome.

17
00:01:18,900 --> 00:01:19,900
Thank you.

18
00:01:19,900 --> 00:01:22,940
I know that you've done some television programs in the New York area.

19
00:01:22,940 --> 00:01:25,820
Your story was the subject of a two hour movie on Monday night.

20
00:01:25,820 --> 00:01:30,380
Why subject yourself to this continual barrage of publicity and questioning?

21
00:01:30,380 --> 00:01:33,100
That's a good question.

22
00:01:33,100 --> 00:01:37,620
I think that actually it's not my whole life.

23
00:01:37,620 --> 00:01:47,700
It's something that I fit into my normal life without disrupting it very much.

24
00:01:47,700 --> 00:01:52,740
Do you have any intentions of setting this all down in book form or have you done that?

25
00:01:52,740 --> 00:01:56,900
There was a book written about my experience.

26
00:01:56,900 --> 00:01:57,900
I did not write it.

27
00:01:57,900 --> 00:01:59,980
It was written by John Fuller.

28
00:01:59,980 --> 00:02:01,820
Would you ever like to write it all down yourself?

29
00:02:01,820 --> 00:02:03,620
No, not particularly.

30
00:02:03,620 --> 00:02:04,620
Okay.

31
00:02:04,620 --> 00:02:08,460
Can we start at the beginning and I know that the audience is quite familiar with most of

32
00:02:08,460 --> 00:02:12,020
the details if they saw the movie on Monday night but to hear it from you rather than

33
00:02:12,020 --> 00:02:14,740
from a script writer I think might be a little more helpful.

34
00:02:14,740 --> 00:02:16,240
What happened?

35
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,920
The experience itself started on September 1961.

36
00:02:19,920 --> 00:02:25,280
My husband Barney and I were returning from a vacation trip.

37
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:30,000
We left Montreal and started down to the White Mountains of New Hampshire.

38
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:35,200
There was a Tuesday night and there was almost no traffic on the highway.

39
00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:40,040
Mom, we suddenly saw what we thought was a new star in the sky.

40
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,600
Then we started moving so we assumed it was a plane.

41
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,480
Then it came in towards us and we realized it was not a plane.

42
00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,320
We really did not know what it was.

43
00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:58,080
Followed us in about 30 miles and was following along the contours of the tops of the mountains.

44
00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:05,520
When we got in an area called Indian Head, it left the top of the mountain, came out

45
00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,040
over the high light, stopped in mid-air.

46
00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:14,840
At that point Barney decided to get out and to identify this.

47
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:20,960
I know it was something unconventional but he was very close minded.

48
00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,920
There was no such thing as UFOs.

49
00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:27,240
He took the binoculars and got out of the car.

50
00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,160
Started walking towards us.

51
00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:36,080
He saw a group of humanoid-like figures standing behind the double row of windows.

52
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:41,120
One of them was getting a message to him to stay right there.

53
00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:42,640
Don't move.

54
00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,960
He was going to be alright.

55
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,520
He realized he was going to be captured.

56
00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:52,360
The craft started to descend and there was a red light on each side.

57
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,040
Was it noisy?

58
00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:55,040
Not a sound.

59
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,680
The craft started to descend and that's when he knew he was going to be captured.

60
00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:04,360
Then he ran back to the car yelling, we had to get out of there.

61
00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:05,360
We took off down the highway.

62
00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,320
There was a series of beeping sounds.

63
00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:16,320
We drove along and there was a second series of beeping sounds and we returned home.

64
00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:24,920
When we got home we began to realize that there were things that we couldn't quite understand.

65
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:33,240
Some of us had the feeling of being contaminated.

66
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,120
We both showered and things like that.

67
00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,480
I just felt that you didn't feel quite right.

68
00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:38,480
Right, yes.

69
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:39,880
Like I want to take a shower or something.

70
00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:40,880
I know the feeling.

71
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,040
And the tops of his shoes were scuffed.

72
00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:45,840
Watches had stopped functioning.

73
00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:52,120
There were things that we really couldn't describe.

74
00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,040
We had strange feelings about them.

75
00:04:54,160 --> 00:05:02,400
Then I had a series of nightmares and gradually in trying to check this out we began to realize

76
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:09,360
that there was a time period missing of approximately two hours that we couldn't account for.

77
00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,480
But we really didn't know what to do about it.

78
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:19,040
Then Barney developed an ulcer and this was about two or three years later and it wouldn't

79
00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:20,040
heal.

80
00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:25,640
So his doctor thought that possibly he ought to talk to the psychiatrist who was in the

81
00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,760
same building and see if it might be emotional.

82
00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,840
So Barney started going to Dr. Stevens and in the process of doing this he started telling

83
00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:39,040
Dr. Stevens about this sighting that we had had.

84
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:46,440
So Dr. Stevens referred Barney and me both to Dr. Benjamin Simon in Boston.

85
00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:51,120
An excellent psychiatrist who used hypnosis.

86
00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,000
Before we get into that part let me go back to the time when you were in the car and you

87
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,840
observed this craft whatever it might be following you down 30 miles a road.

88
00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:00,840
Were you scared?

89
00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:01,840
No.

90
00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:02,840
Not at that point.

91
00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:04,560
Had you ever seen anything like it before?

92
00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:05,560
No.

93
00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:10,000
You say that your late husband had a closed mind at that time on UFOs or flying saucers

94
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,680
that he said there could be no such thing.

95
00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,040
How did you feel about it?

96
00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,240
I had no opinion.

97
00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:16,960
I had heard the term.

98
00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:22,520
I had no idea how one maneuvered or its appearance.

99
00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:24,520
Nothing like that.

100
00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:25,840
Just the term.

101
00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:30,520
When you say that the humanoids somehow communicated with your husband that he was about to be

102
00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,520
captured or abducted.

103
00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,840
Did they speak in words?

104
00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:35,840
English?

105
00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:41,240
We don't think so because they were above him in the craft.

106
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:42,640
He was on the ground.

107
00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,640
When I re-questioned very much he had been able to hear voices.

108
00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:52,520
We don't know how but he had the message that he was to stay there.

109
00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:56,760
After it was all over and after you had gone home and noticed the time frame out of whack

110
00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,800
and had the feeling of contamination or uncomfortability.

111
00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,840
Did you think that maybe you were losing the handle on reality just a little bit?

112
00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:05,840
No.

113
00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:10,680
You never had any feelings like maybe I've got something going on up here that shouldn't

114
00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:11,880
be going on up there?

115
00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:18,640
Well, we knew and seen something and we were very puzzled and had a great deal of curiosity

116
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,480
about what we had seen.

117
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:27,600
I think the time that I really became upset and this was the next day when I went out and

118
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:33,080
started looking to tile over and found on the trunk that there was a series of highly

119
00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,600
polished spots.

120
00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:36,600
That was upsetting.

121
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:43,280
I told my sister they had me take a compass and to check it out to see how the compass

122
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:49,520
would react and when it reacted erratically then I began to become frightened.

123
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:54,120
I know that I'm getting way ahead of the chronology but do you ever wonder where those humanoids

124
00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:55,120
are?

125
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:56,120
No.

126
00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:57,120
No.

127
00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:58,120
Really?

128
00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:59,120
Do you not?

129
00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:05,880
I think that if that had happened to me I would wish to see them again and I would

130
00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:10,320
wonder where they were and what they were doing and what they took away from me or from

131
00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:16,320
you in this case in terms of whatever reason they confronted you, what they learned from

132
00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,720
you about you, about the planet or whatever and you don't think about that at all?

133
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:21,720
No.

134
00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:27,200
I think that their picking us up was just a chance encounter.

135
00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,840
I think we just happened to be convenient and if they're really studying people I would

136
00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:36,760
assume they would be busy collecting other specimens.

137
00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:41,520
Does it surprise you that we have not heard of any collecting since 1961?

138
00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,600
I mean other people being abducted?

139
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:50,440
I mean I can stop and theorize about hey they're here to study people why would they study,

140
00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,920
why would they not study more than Barney and Betty Hill?

141
00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,280
I believe they have.

142
00:08:55,280 --> 00:09:00,440
I believe there's quite a few people who have been abducted.

143
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,120
May I ask you a tough one to ask?

144
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:09,480
Prior to 1961 were you or your husband ever under any kind of psychiatric examination,

145
00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,600
psychiatric care or anything like that?

146
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:12,600
No.

147
00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,160
So up until 1961 you had lived a comparatively normal life and you hadn't been to a mental

148
00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,240
hospital or electric shock, preach or anything like that.

149
00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:20,240
No.

150
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,720
You know what I'm trying to, people, myself included have the feeling, this one that's

151
00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:29,320
going on now, the two that call themselves he and she that supposedly are advocating

152
00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,800
for people to sell their possessions and let's take a flying saucer ride to another planet

153
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,560
and I think to myself that sounds a little crazy.

154
00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:38,320
I'll agree with you.

155
00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:43,120
In other words you've not been kind of, I get to sell the farm as it were and go for

156
00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:44,960
the ride to another planet.

157
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:45,960
No.

158
00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:46,960
And if I was invited I would refuse.

159
00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:47,960
You would refuse.

160
00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:48,960
So would I.

161
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:49,960
They offer me there or there.

162
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:51,920
I'll stay right here for now.

163
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,880
How did you finally find out that you had been taken for a ride on a spaceship as it

164
00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:57,880
were?

165
00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:04,560
By the way, Barney's Alps are, you know, sadly going to Dr. Stevens and then referred to

166
00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:11,040
Dr. Benjamin Simon where we went in every Saturday morning for two hours for seven months.

167
00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:17,400
We were hypnotized individually and he taped, we called it the sessions and he caused us

168
00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:23,160
to have amnesia at the end of each session so that we could not know what we were saying

169
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,160
until he had collected all the tapes.

170
00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,560
Then he played them back to us.

171
00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:34,840
And this is when we realized the experience of leaving Route 3, going off into a side

172
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,280
road onto a dirt road.

173
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,280
The occupants of the craft were in the road.

174
00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:41,280
They stopped us.

175
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:46,240
They came up, took us out of the car, dragged us through the woods, took us on board the

176
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,400
craft, gave us a physical examination.

177
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:54,520
They took Barney into one room and I was taken into a second room.

178
00:10:54,520 --> 00:11:00,680
And they, well, because while I was there, my examination was first.

179
00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:04,160
Would this physical examination be of a type that most of us have experienced in a doctor's

180
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:09,720
office on a regular or irregular basis or standard physical examination?

181
00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:16,720
I think, well, it would not have been standard in 1961 because some of the testing that I

182
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,200
received, we did not do them.

183
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,200
However, we are now doing that.

184
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:22,200
Big samples.

185
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:28,640
One of the things they did is they inserted a needle-like instrument in my navel.

186
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,560
And they told me it was for a pregnancy test.

187
00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:36,920
And at that time, this was completely unheard of.

188
00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:37,920
Today we do it.

189
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:38,920
Dare?

190
00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:39,920
Yes.

191
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:46,040
We'd surprise them because they didn't expect that it would hurt.

192
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,960
And I guess there is a way of doing it, our doctors have been doing it, whether there's

193
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,080
no pain associated with it.

194
00:11:54,080 --> 00:12:00,400
In the time between, you have drawn what is referred to as a star map, which has been

195
00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,520
looked at by astrologists and people.

196
00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:05,520
Astronomers.

197
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:06,800
Or astronomers, rather.

198
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:12,000
And before we get into that, let's take a little break and we will have Mr. Friedman

199
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,400
come out because I think he has some familiarity with it and can give us some comparative or

200
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,600
some comparisons between what you have drawn and what is actually in the habit.

201
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:25,920
Sterna, I'll give you right back at these.

202
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:32,240
Joining Betty Hill in yours truly now is Stanton Friedman, a well-known nuclear physicist who

203
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:37,240
has over 14 years of experience in the development of advanced nuclear and space systems in his

204
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:38,240
experience.

205
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,480
He is the only space scientist we have heard of in this country who is known to be devoting

206
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,320
full time to ufology or ufo-ology.

207
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,400
And he is convinced after spending 17 years studying the subject that flying saucers are

208
00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:55,320
real and I am told I have your permission to refer to you as the flying saucer physicist.

209
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,080
The galloping gourmet.

210
00:12:58,080 --> 00:12:59,320
Now on to the star map.

211
00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:00,320
What is that?

212
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:01,320
All right.

213
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:06,240
When I was on board the craft, I asked the leader where he was from.

214
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:11,960
He showed me the star map and asked if I knew where we were on the map, which I did not.

215
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,640
So he said there was no way he could explain it to me.

216
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:22,680
Then during the hypnosis, Dr. Simon suggested that if I wanted to and if I could be and

217
00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:25,320
if I remember I could do the star map.

218
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,480
So I drew this.

219
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,240
That was as a post-hypnotic subject.

220
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,720
Which helps in the accuracy, which is the important point here.

221
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:37,480
Do we have a picture of that star map or a slide of that star map or anything?

222
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,680
I just have a particle about it that I just happened to have with me.

223
00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:42,680
Yeah.

224
00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:45,240
The worst slide, I am not sure they show up.

225
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:51,800
It is a collection of about 15 points joined by lines which were supposedly trade routes

226
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,280
or occasional expeditions.

227
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,240
In other words, it was not a whole mess of stars.

228
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,600
It was in 500 little points.

229
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:06,200
Were points of light, apparently a three-dimensional hologram or something like that.

230
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,040
The problem with the star map that Betty drew is there are no labels on the map.

231
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:16,160
I mean, we have got 200 billion or so stars in our galaxy and here we have got 15 stars.

232
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,000
Is this the one on the top, the interpretation that you just look at the screen right there

233
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,000
on point with Hill map?

234
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,040
Yeah, the Hill map is what Betty drew.

235
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,160
The other one is a result of an enormous amount of work.

236
00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:28,360
That is the second one.

237
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,440
Yes, that one was done by computer.

238
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:36,920
I read a gal who was in Ohio, Marjorie Fish, read the story, saw the star map and said,

239
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,520
well, maybe we can check that.

240
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,760
There are no labels on the map where the star is kind of the problem.

241
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,920
She did something nobody else had ever done, this gal.

242
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:50,440
She built a total of 19 different three-dimensional models with all the stars in our galactic

243
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:51,440
neighborhood.

244
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:52,600
Some of them had only certain kinds of stars.

245
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,760
Some had all the stars within 30, 40, 50 light years.

246
00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:01,040
The whole point being to look to see if there was any pattern that matched at all what Betty

247
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:02,840
had drawn on a two-dimensional map.

248
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,120
In the known galactic system.

249
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,120
Yeah, in our neighborhood.

250
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:07,120
All right.

251
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,120
Real nearby.

252
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,760
You see, you can't build a map like this without having distance data.

253
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,480
We don't have distance data on the stars beyond roughly 50, 60 years, light years.

254
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,680
After an enormous amount of work, very careful, very well detailed and reported in this article,

255
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:25,160
among other places, she was able to identify all the 15 stars of the map.

256
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,120
One was the sun, which was very nice since they're here.

257
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,560
It's nice that we're on the map.

258
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,640
Several intriguing things about the identifications of the stars.

259
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:37,800
All the stars in the map are the kinds of stars that we expect to have planets in life.

260
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,720
That's only true of about 5% of the stars in the neighborhood for reasons of temperature,

261
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,920
age, rotation, rate, technical reasons.

262
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:49,080
Every one of the stars in the map are the right kind of stars, and all the right kind

263
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,720
of stars in the neighborhood are part of the map.

264
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,760
Now, the chance is that out of 250 stars within the volume of space that she was working, that

265
00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,080
she would grab 15 and come up with only the right kind.

266
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,080
Are astronomical.

267
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:02,080
Yes.

268
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:03,080
To use a prayer.

269
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:04,080
Right.

270
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,640
And there was a couple of other intriguing things.

271
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,200
A map made sense on a three-dimensional basis.

272
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:14,520
It's going from star to nearest star to nearest star rather than going across on a longer path.

273
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:20,440
It could not have been drawn by any earthling doing the same thing that Marjorie had done

274
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:21,880
prior to Betty's experience.

275
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:23,640
Betty drew it in 1964.

276
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:24,640
Yes.

277
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,720
Marjorie's work was after 1969 that she was able to identify all the stars.

278
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,520
The data on three of the stars, the distance data, was either wrong or nonexistent and

279
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,520
nonexistent back when Betty had drawn it.

280
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,720
There's no way somebody could have done the same thing program Betty to spit it out that

281
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,800
way because it would have come out different.

282
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,960
Which would seem to indicate since the map is what things look like from out there, away

283
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:50,040
from our solar system, and since none of us have been away from the solar system, that

284
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,120
the source of the information would seem to have been somebody who had been an extraterrestrial.

285
00:16:54,120 --> 00:17:00,560
Now the map work also tells us the names of the base stars where these guys apparently

286
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:01,560
came from.

287
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,640
That doesn't mean everybody comes from the same place or anything like that, only this

288
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,560
particular crew.

289
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,400
And that's kind of exciting too because the two stars, or two that are close together,

290
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:15,200
have lots of lines indicating lots of trade routes as opposed to all the other places

291
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:16,600
on the map.

292
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,960
These two stars, they don't want to reticulate the Greek letter and don't blame me for the

293
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:20,960
names of stars.

294
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:21,960
I didn't invent the system.

295
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:22,960
No.

296
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:24,080
I'm not a co-organized.

297
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,620
The guys from Zeta One, Reticular or whatever it is, I think that's great.

298
00:17:27,620 --> 00:17:28,620
Yes.

299
00:17:28,620 --> 00:17:30,720
There are two stars in the constellation of Reticulum, which you can only see from the

300
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:31,720
Southern Hemisphere.

301
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,400
So you can't go out tonight and go look at them.

302
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:39,800
These two stars, as it happens, and this wasn't known before this was done, these two stars

303
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:44,640
are the closest to each other, pair of stars suitable for planets and life in our whole

304
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:45,640
neighborhood.

305
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,080
In other words, the nearest star to the sun, we're out in the boonies here, the nearest

306
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,460
star is about five light-years away.

307
00:17:50,460 --> 00:17:53,540
two stars are only a twentieth of a light you're apart. They're a hundred times closer

308
00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:58,180
to each other. So we can't even see the smoke from the next guy's chimney and they've got

309
00:17:58,180 --> 00:18:02,860
next door neighbors. Right. And nobody knew that beforehand. Now from a planet around

310
00:18:02,860 --> 00:18:06,620
one star looking at the other of these two, you could see it during the day, it would

311
00:18:06,620 --> 00:18:09,900
be a hundred times brighter than Venus, which is the brightest thing in the sky beside

312
00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:13,780
the Sun and the Moon. With a good telescope, you could see planets around the other star

313
00:18:13,780 --> 00:18:19,020
and we have no hope of doing that from down here. It would be perfectly natural that the

314
00:18:19,020 --> 00:18:24,240
earliest interstellar communication and travel would take place when you had a very close

315
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:29,580
neighbor three light weeks away, roughly as opposed to five light years. And these two

316
00:18:29,580 --> 00:18:33,460
stars aren't on any of the lists put out by the exobiologists and radio astronomers

317
00:18:33,460 --> 00:18:37,260
saying we should listen for signals from outer space, partly because they're below the equator

318
00:18:37,260 --> 00:18:41,620
and we smart guys are north of the equator and radio telescopes are north of the equator.

319
00:18:41,620 --> 00:18:45,580
That information wasn't known before all this work was done. We were at that big radio

320
00:18:45,580 --> 00:18:52,140
telescope. Are you able to practice these at all? No, no, below the horizon. And so

321
00:18:52,140 --> 00:18:55,780
these two stars, incidentally, I should point out are only 37 light years away. Does this

322
00:18:55,780 --> 00:18:59,660
mean that if we were to build some kind of a listening facility, radio telescope on the

323
00:18:59,660 --> 00:19:03,180
other side of the equator, we might be able to perceive some kinds of signals from these

324
00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:06,860
cities. They're sending some. I frankly don't think that way. They're coming down here to

325
00:19:06,860 --> 00:19:10,060
pick up Betty and Barney. They got to be sending some. But there's no reason to assume that

326
00:19:10,060 --> 00:19:14,620
they're stuck with radio. I hate to say that, but no reason to assume that that's the latest

327
00:19:14,620 --> 00:19:21,220
means of communication. But if it is within the realm of possibility, Stan, that by constructing

328
00:19:21,220 --> 00:19:26,220
a facility that would be able to listen to these two terrestrial bodies, I mean, what

329
00:19:26,220 --> 00:19:32,460
kind of terrestrial bodies? Wouldn't this be an enormously exciting thing to go ahead

330
00:19:32,460 --> 00:19:36,500
and do? I mean, why are we not doing this? Plus money, I guess. Well, let's cancel the

331
00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:43,020
war. There's another reason. You see, radio astronomers are in general opposed to the

332
00:19:43,020 --> 00:19:47,820
notion of flying saucers coming here. There's one obvious reason and some not so obvious

333
00:19:47,820 --> 00:19:51,140
ones. One of them is that obviously you don't need a radio telescope to communicate if they're

334
00:19:51,140 --> 00:19:56,180
landing in somebody's backyard. You know, who needs a $10 billion facility. It's been

335
00:19:56,180 --> 00:20:01,580
proposed that we build project Cyclops 10 mile wide array of radio telescopes and you

336
00:20:01,580 --> 00:20:05,260
don't need it if they're coming down here. So it would be very nice and there have been

337
00:20:05,260 --> 00:20:10,020
some requests made that more data about these two unimportant stars. They're not exciting.

338
00:20:10,020 --> 00:20:12,820
They're not pulsars. They're not exploding galaxies. But they're new transistors. Let's

339
00:20:12,820 --> 00:20:16,860
gather something. Yeah. We don't have much data on them. We have very little spectrogate

340
00:20:16,860 --> 00:20:19,580
even. Betty, when you drew this map, did you know

341
00:20:19,580 --> 00:20:23,660
at the time, see, I don't know how it feels to be under hypnosis and to receive a suggestion

342
00:20:23,660 --> 00:20:27,220
and follow through on it. Did you know at the time that you were doing, could you see

343
00:20:27,220 --> 00:20:32,740
it right in your mind's eye as it were? No. I mean, I could picture the map that the

344
00:20:32,740 --> 00:20:38,060
leader has shown me and then I just sat there without thinking and tried to just to lose

345
00:20:38,420 --> 00:20:41,820
the way police departments are using this technique now to get police officers to remember

346
00:20:41,820 --> 00:20:45,700
license plates, you know, when everybody was shot and they were thinking about other things.

347
00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:48,760
Hypnosis is a standard technique. But at some point they've flashed on that and retained

348
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,380
it somewhere in the memory. Yeah. Apparently, we've got a videotape machine in the head

349
00:20:52,380 --> 00:20:57,540
that grabs on everything that you're exposed to, but getting it back, rape victims. They

350
00:20:57,540 --> 00:21:02,780
hypnotize them, have them play it back on a television screen and then get rid of the

351
00:21:02,780 --> 00:21:06,580
emotional problem. Right. And they can remember the need to remove the trauma and roll the

352
00:21:07,340 --> 00:21:14,340
tape. Exactly. What did these humanoids appear like? Anything like life on earth people?

353
00:21:15,140 --> 00:21:20,020
The description. They were. And I think we have a picture of them. Do we not? A drawing.

354
00:21:20,020 --> 00:21:24,300
A drawing. That's a drawing. Now that's a drawing. We should stress now, Betty, that

355
00:21:24,300 --> 00:21:27,780
that wasn't something you drew. No. And it wasn't something that an artist decided,

356
00:21:27,780 --> 00:21:31,820
hey, what an extraterrestrial look like, I'll draw one. This was drawn by an artist

357
00:21:31,860 --> 00:21:38,620
in New Hampshire, David Baker, sitting next to Barney while Barney under hypnosis describes

358
00:21:38,620 --> 00:21:43,300
what they look like, just like a police artist working with the victim of a kidnap thing.

359
00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:48,260
And humanoid, I take it to mean two arms, two legs ahead in the body. You know, you notice

360
00:21:48,260 --> 00:21:51,740
there aren't three eyes there. You notice that there aren't four legs. It's not a

361
00:21:51,740 --> 00:21:57,100
well, it's a reaction. Can you put it back up? It's a side view. I wish that we had a,

362
00:21:57,180 --> 00:22:02,220
we do have a frontal view. I think there's another one. Oh, this is a bust done by a

363
00:22:02,220 --> 00:22:07,060
sculptor is working from a whole bunch of those drawings like the one we just saw. Do

364
00:22:07,060 --> 00:22:13,060
you recall now how they were dressed if they were? Yes, it was all dressed alike in that

365
00:22:13,060 --> 00:22:20,540
clothing. It was sort of like a one piece outfit. Was it a fabric or a metal? Yes, I

366
00:22:20,620 --> 00:22:26,540
would say it was a fabric that color. No buttons and figures or anything like that.

367
00:22:26,540 --> 00:22:33,540
No zippers? No zippers. Like a jumpsuit. Yeah, something like that. And then our

368
00:22:33,540 --> 00:22:39,580
Melina was wearing a military cap, much as our military was wearing had a jacket over his.

369
00:22:39,580 --> 00:22:47,580
And they were about four and a half to five feet tall. And they had gray, gray complexion and

370
00:22:47,660 --> 00:22:54,660
very light wraparound eyes. Very light eyes. Big eyes. Did they in any way threaten you or

371
00:22:57,420 --> 00:23:03,420
intimidate you or make it seem as if they were going to cause you harm? No. In fact, they

372
00:23:03,420 --> 00:23:10,420
made the leader made an attempt to reassure me. But you know, I was reacting. I was being

373
00:23:11,420 --> 00:23:15,980
kidnapped. You know, I was having a normal reaction that a person would have in that

374
00:23:16,060 --> 00:23:20,460
kind of situation. So there was some sort of reassurance to what it wasn't a vodka martini

375
00:23:20,460 --> 00:23:28,460
or anything like that. They were kind to them, Adam. All right, let me stop for a couple

376
00:23:28,540 --> 00:23:31,260
of minutes. We'll be right back after these announcements. And I hope you'll all stay

377
00:23:31,260 --> 00:23:34,820
with us. We can hear you. I was standing Betty and I want to spend just a few minutes here

378
00:23:34,820 --> 00:23:40,060
asking you about your life and what it's been like since this happened. Your friends, your

379
00:23:40,060 --> 00:23:44,820
neighbors, your acquaintances, what do they all make of this? The ball of course in the

380
00:23:44,860 --> 00:23:49,940
beginning, we didn't tell anyone. Right. And for a long time they didn't know this. And

381
00:23:49,940 --> 00:23:56,940
then I think that when it did become known to them, they more or sympathize with us. How

382
00:23:57,780 --> 00:24:03,780
much feeling did you hear about or sample firsthand where people may have thought that

383
00:24:03,780 --> 00:24:10,780
old Betty and old Barney have just, you know, gone over the hill? They dripped out. The

384
00:24:10,780 --> 00:24:17,780
white is gone. I think actually, I, I'm not a legitimate person. He and we were quite

385
00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:25,500
well known. I'm a social worker. I work for the state of New Hampshire to this day. Yes.

386
00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:31,500
I've been a social worker for 18 years. I've been a work for the post office, but he was

387
00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:36,580
very, very active in community affairs. He was the chairman of the board of directors

388
00:24:36,660 --> 00:24:43,660
of the anti-poverty program. He was on the state board of the program. He was New Hampshire

389
00:24:45,540 --> 00:24:51,060
Commission of U.S. Civil Rights. Many organizations like that. I was on the board of directors

390
00:24:51,060 --> 00:24:56,340
of the American Civil Liberties Union. So we were known throughout the state. You were

391
00:24:56,340 --> 00:25:00,700
in every sense of the word, solid, upstanding citizens of the state of New Hampshire. And

392
00:25:00,700 --> 00:25:06,180
you continue thus to this day. You were employed by the state of New Hampshire as a social worker.

393
00:25:06,260 --> 00:25:11,860
And from talking to you, there are no lingering after effects of this at all. What do you

394
00:25:11,860 --> 00:25:17,420
think in the grand scheme of things, it all means? I'm asking you to be very, very philosophical

395
00:25:17,420 --> 00:25:21,540
here. What do you think it all means? Are you a religious person? You believe in me?

396
00:25:21,540 --> 00:25:28,540
I mean, I'm an Italian. I live in Dublin now. This is really saying, what is their purpose?

397
00:25:28,740 --> 00:25:35,740
Why are they here? And at this point, it seems to me that they're here to examine us, to

398
00:25:36,260 --> 00:25:41,460
maybe do an in-depth sociological study, find out how we live, things like this. But the

399
00:25:41,460 --> 00:25:47,460
purpose of it, I wouldn't even begin to speculate. What if you were to see them again? I'd run.

400
00:25:47,460 --> 00:25:52,460
Why? Well, somebody else to have a chance.

401
00:25:52,460 --> 00:25:57,180
It's a lot of other people are getting their turn. I was just at a conference this past

402
00:25:57,180 --> 00:26:01,980
weekend in Portsmouth, Arkansas, where the four major UFO groups in the country got together.

403
00:26:01,980 --> 00:26:08,140
There are at least a dozen other time regression, apparent abduction cases being investigated

404
00:26:08,140 --> 00:26:13,060
at this time. There are hundreds of other reports of earthlings having seen critters

405
00:26:13,060 --> 00:26:17,020
associated with UFOs. I use critter because I don't know what else to call them, human

406
00:26:17,020 --> 00:26:22,220
lives. If I say little LGM, little green men, that's the wrong tinge here. So there have

407
00:26:22,220 --> 00:26:26,660
apparently been lots of other specimens picked up. Now, it's kind of interesting to speculate.

408
00:26:26,660 --> 00:26:29,900
What are the chances of having an experience like this and winding up with somebody like

409
00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:34,900
Dr. Simon? That is a psychiatrist who uses regressive hypnosis, who doesn't immediately

410
00:26:34,900 --> 00:26:38,620
say, hey, these people really went off on a trip someplace, you know, the wrong kind

411
00:26:38,620 --> 00:26:44,980
of trip. Most people don't go to psychiatrists. And most people who have had such an experience

412
00:26:44,980 --> 00:26:50,140
don't pursue it far enough to know that they've had a time lapse. There's a real problem

413
00:26:50,140 --> 00:26:54,540
there. But in terms of the uniqueness of the experience, it's the best documented such

414
00:26:54,540 --> 00:26:59,820
case. But there are loads and loads of reports from all over the world. I want to stress

415
00:26:59,820 --> 00:27:04,460
the all over the world part of people who have seen critters associated with UFOs.

416
00:27:04,460 --> 00:27:09,100
And I'd like to add that this is another side of the sideline. I think that because of my

417
00:27:09,100 --> 00:27:17,460
experience, I receive a great many reports of UFO sightings, landings, and occupants.

418
00:27:17,460 --> 00:27:23,500
And I collect these and I send them along to AFRO and Tucson, Arizona, so that they

419
00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:29,620
can... People know that Betty isn't going to laugh. Have you seen any objects since

420
00:27:30,020 --> 00:27:35,740
September of 61? No. Not a single one. I think strange lights go across the sky, but I would

421
00:27:35,740 --> 00:27:41,340
call that... Lights, I see very weird things every night. I've got the window. You live

422
00:27:41,340 --> 00:27:46,900
in New York, but you don't fly, Evans. But, you know, I haven't. But I have talked with

423
00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:50,660
many people who have. You know what I can't understand about your bets? If I had seen

424
00:27:50,660 --> 00:27:57,340
this thing, I would spend the rest of my life wondering why I hadn't seen it again or when

425
00:27:57,420 --> 00:28:03,700
I could see it again. It's like the people who are searching for Noah's Ark or that sort

426
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:07,420
of thing. But once you have this kind of an experience, I would just say, why don't they

427
00:28:07,420 --> 00:28:11,580
come back? Because now I know. I remember that was Dr. Simon's rule, too, to take away

428
00:28:11,580 --> 00:28:16,220
some of the immediacy and the fear and all those other things. But now, remember, when

429
00:28:16,220 --> 00:28:22,020
I was on board the craft, I wasn't able to answer the questions I was asked. And I was

430
00:28:22,060 --> 00:28:28,420
very upset about this because I didn't want this later to judge everyone on this planet

431
00:28:28,420 --> 00:28:33,620
by my lack of knowledge. So I invited them back. And I said, if you come back, I'll put

432
00:28:33,620 --> 00:28:34,940
you in touch with the right people.

433
00:28:34,940 --> 00:28:41,940
I don't have to know. If he's going to come back, you'll get in touch.

434
00:28:41,940 --> 00:28:44,380
Well, he's not been very polite so far, has he?

435
00:28:44,380 --> 00:28:44,780
No.

436
00:28:44,780 --> 00:28:49,100
All right. I'll stop for 205. We'll be right back. We're going to get back into a little

437
00:28:49,180 --> 00:28:53,300
bit of technological data now, which has not been revealed on national television before.

438
00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:56,860
Yeah, I don't want to sound like a muckraker. I want to sound like a physicist. But, well,

439
00:28:56,860 --> 00:29:00,460
before you go ahead, then let me ask you, how did you get mixed up in all this? I mean,

440
00:29:00,460 --> 00:29:02,900
why are you the following sauce for physicists? How many have you seen?

441
00:29:02,900 --> 00:29:06,820
I've never seen any. But look, I spent 14 years chasing neutrons and gamma rays in

442
00:29:06,820 --> 00:29:11,500
the industry. I never saw one of them, either. And I think they're real, too. I read a book

443
00:29:11,500 --> 00:29:15,220
17 years ago, and I was a skeptic. And the book can treat me. I was working on, I've

444
00:29:15,260 --> 00:29:20,020
only worked on far out things. Nuclear airplanes, nuclear rockets, fusion rockets, nuclear power

445
00:29:20,020 --> 00:29:25,140
plants for space, more canceled programs than anybody else I know. You are a conceptualizer.

446
00:29:25,140 --> 00:29:30,260
Well, data analysts, all kinds of goodies thrown into one, I guess. But I read a book.

447
00:29:30,260 --> 00:29:33,820
It didn't convince me I read 15 more books. They were more convincing. And it was Air Force

448
00:29:33,820 --> 00:29:37,940
Data that finally convinced me. I really didn't do anything about it for the next eight or

449
00:29:37,940 --> 00:29:42,100
nine years after that. I gave my first lecture about eight years ago. I found it was a lot

450
00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:46,620
of interest. I was still working in industry. The last five years after the nuclear aerospace

451
00:29:46,620 --> 00:29:52,660
business went down the tubes, as you might expect. After I got tired of working on programs

452
00:29:52,660 --> 00:29:55,820
that wound up being canceled after two or three years, where you got nothing to show

453
00:29:55,820 --> 00:29:59,620
for it. You know, all businesses have a remarkable similarity in certain areas. They have the

454
00:29:59,620 --> 00:30:04,060
old cancellation clause there. I've had many fewer lectures canceled than I had technical

455
00:30:04,060 --> 00:30:08,780
programs canceled. So I found that there's enormous interest in the subject and that

456
00:30:08,780 --> 00:30:14,420
I enjoyed being on the stage. And that the response at the college campuses is just great.

457
00:30:14,420 --> 00:30:18,300
There are 45 states now and over 300 colleges. I've got my finger on the pulse.

458
00:30:18,300 --> 00:30:23,740
How do you feel about he and she as they're called leading us all to a too nerve-racking

459
00:30:23,740 --> 00:30:28,860
one? I think it typifies the press' complete unwillingness to come to grips with the whole

460
00:30:28,860 --> 00:30:32,580
UFO subject. I mean, there have been religious groups with this UFO tinge running around for

461
00:30:32,580 --> 00:30:38,620
at least 25 years. It didn't deserve the attention it got. There's nothing new about it. There

462
00:30:38,660 --> 00:30:42,100
are groups that stand on mountaintops waiting for the world and there are satanic churches

463
00:30:42,100 --> 00:30:47,020
and witchcraft cultism is all over the place. There's so much solid stuff going on about

464
00:30:47,020 --> 00:30:51,180
flying saucers. A cosmic watergate that's being treated like Alice's Tea Party.

465
00:30:51,180 --> 00:30:55,980
But you see the problem with covering that sort of thing from a journalistic stance.

466
00:30:55,980 --> 00:31:00,100
You need knowledge. You need knowledge. And there are so many little stories that get

467
00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:06,380
in the way of really finding out truth. Example, the fellow who claimed that there were beings

468
00:31:06,380 --> 00:31:09,100
from outer space killing livestock in the Middle West.

469
00:31:09,100 --> 00:31:10,980
So much more to hear you turn it up.

470
00:31:10,980 --> 00:31:16,500
The fellow in Wisconsin who had 14 million little men and women in bushel baskets in

471
00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:20,620
his basement who were going to take he and his wife away after Christmas to the end of

472
00:31:20,620 --> 00:31:23,260
the world. And I remember talking to her saying, what are you going to do the day after the

473
00:31:23,260 --> 00:31:26,020
world? And she says I got an appointment at the hairdresser. And so you say, you said,

474
00:31:26,020 --> 00:31:28,540
no, these people are all lack old because you hear so much.

475
00:31:28,540 --> 00:31:32,780
That's why guys like me are standing up in public to be counted. And that's why I focus

476
00:31:32,780 --> 00:31:36,140
on the data, the facts that are checkable, the one that anybody else can find out about

477
00:31:36,140 --> 00:31:41,620
if they want. And you see, there isn't a deluge of data. But I check out all my lectures

478
00:31:41,620 --> 00:31:46,060
and I cover five large scale scientific studies. And I ask and no more than one or two percent

479
00:31:46,060 --> 00:31:49,660
have read any of these, even when I'm talking to a thousand engineers and scientists at

480
00:31:49,660 --> 00:31:50,660
once.

481
00:31:50,660 --> 00:31:55,020
So that's why I try to focus on data. And maybe that's the good cue for getting into

482
00:31:55,020 --> 00:31:58,420
here's the biggest study that's ever been done on UFOs.

483
00:31:58,420 --> 00:31:59,420
Yes, sir.

484
00:31:59,420 --> 00:32:05,740
Twenty years ago, Project Blue Book special report number 14. Now, this was done by a

485
00:32:05,740 --> 00:32:09,340
very respectable firm of the Telm Memorial Institute in Columbus, Ohio, they developed

486
00:32:09,340 --> 00:32:13,380
the Xerox process as an example. They're under contract to Project Blue Book. The document

487
00:32:13,380 --> 00:32:18,260
itself was never publicly distributed. Instead, a totally misleading press release was put

488
00:32:18,260 --> 00:32:23,500
out with a statement by the secretary of the Air Force that on the basis of this study,

489
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:27,780
we believe that no such objects as those properly described as flying saucers have overflowing

490
00:32:27,780 --> 00:32:33,380
in the United States. Even the unknown 3% could have been identified as conventional

491
00:32:33,380 --> 00:32:38,820
phenomena or illusions if more data had been available. That was a quote. That statement's

492
00:32:38,820 --> 00:32:43,100
been repeated innumerable times or been editorials. The Los Angeles Times are a big editorial quoting

493
00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:44,100
that statement.

494
00:32:44,100 --> 00:32:48,300
Nothing wrong with the statement is it's totally false. What I'd like, one of the slides we

495
00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:54,260
have reviews the data. There were 2199 sightings categorized here as something erudite.

496
00:32:54,260 --> 00:32:55,260
Here are the slides.

497
00:32:55,260 --> 00:32:59,220
Okay, you can see the 6 categories on the left. Astronomical, aircraft, balloon, other

498
00:32:59,220 --> 00:33:03,300
is miscellaneous, includes all kinds of stuff. The ones I'm interested are the unknowns.

499
00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:08,580
Most UFO sightings can be explained. I couldn't care less about them. There were 434 unknowns.

500
00:33:08,580 --> 00:33:12,740
If you divide by 2199, you can almost see the number on the right next to the unknowns,

501
00:33:12,740 --> 00:33:18,620
you'll find that 19.7% were actually listed as unknowns. Completely separate from that

502
00:33:18,620 --> 00:33:23,140
last category that was on the slide, insufficient information. Secretary of the Air Force said

503
00:33:23,140 --> 00:33:27,740
3%, it was 19.7%. He said there were just the ones for which there wasn't enough data.

504
00:33:27,740 --> 00:33:28,740
That was not the case at all.

505
00:33:28,740 --> 00:33:32,980
There was a quality evaluation done in this sighting, which is what's on the next slide.

506
00:33:32,980 --> 00:33:36,900
Same 2199 sightings, and you can't see the critical data. The defined quality.

507
00:33:36,900 --> 00:33:40,820
Depending on the back one of the observer, the circumstance of this sight and the duration

508
00:33:40,820 --> 00:33:44,340
of observation, I mean, presumably a report from a physicist and a pilot of something

509
00:33:44,340 --> 00:33:48,220
seen for half an hour in broad daylight at 50 yards would be better than a light sipping

510
00:33:48,220 --> 00:33:50,620
by in the sky as reported by the town drunk.

511
00:33:51,620 --> 00:33:53,620
That's a subjective evaluation.

512
00:33:53,620 --> 00:33:57,700
Right. If they want to communicate, you think they'd pick us, instead of some guy living

513
00:33:57,700 --> 00:33:58,700
in a swamp.

514
00:33:58,700 --> 00:34:03,260
Of the excellent sightings, one found that one third couldn't be identified. The better

515
00:34:03,260 --> 00:34:06,660
the quality of the sighting, the more likely it was to be an unknown.

516
00:34:06,660 --> 00:34:10,620
And yet the skeptics will tell you, Dr. Carl Sagan has said it from Cornell, that there

517
00:34:10,620 --> 00:34:13,980
are no reliable sightings that are interesting and no interesting sightings that are reliable.

518
00:34:13,980 --> 00:34:19,420
The fact is just the reverse of that. They did a cross comparison in this study. Unknowns,

519
00:34:19,420 --> 00:34:23,220
the ones I'm interested in versus knowns. Six different characteristics, things like

520
00:34:23,220 --> 00:34:26,100
a parent-sized color-shaped speed, that sort of thing.

521
00:34:26,100 --> 00:34:30,020
They found high square statistical analysis for those who worry about such things. They

522
00:34:30,020 --> 00:34:34,460
found that probably the unknowns were just misknowns. It was less than 1%. The two groups

523
00:34:34,460 --> 00:34:39,020
simply do not match in any significant characteristic. And maneuverability wasn't one of the things

524
00:34:39,020 --> 00:34:43,100
that was looked at in this study, which is certainly one of the most distinguishing characteristics.

525
00:34:43,100 --> 00:34:45,260
Nobody talks about that study.

526
00:34:45,260 --> 00:34:49,060
Other data that I'd like to mention, the University of Colorado study, people refer to the Condon

527
00:34:49,060 --> 00:34:53,020
Report. World famous businesses, Ed Condon and the University of Colorado spent half

528
00:34:53,020 --> 00:34:58,260
a million dollars doing the study of UFOs. January 69, all the publicity came out. Big

529
00:34:58,260 --> 00:35:04,140
book, 965 pages. Nothing of flying saucers. Forget flying saucers. It was all based on

530
00:35:04,140 --> 00:35:07,740
Dr. Condon's summary. In conclusion, if you look at the data in the report, 30% of the

531
00:35:07,740 --> 00:35:12,780
sightings they looked at couldn't be explained, including sightings by orbiting astronauts,

532
00:35:12,780 --> 00:35:17,700
including radar visual cases, multiple witness cases. Another source of data, or in recent

533
00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:21,020
time, I'll wait to shut off the data for a second. I'm a physicist. Data's my beat.

534
00:35:21,020 --> 00:35:25,540
I understand, but commercials are my bag. We'll be right back after these announcements.

535
00:35:25,540 --> 00:35:33,180
Joining us now is Lee Spiegel, who is the creator of the National UFO News Information Network,

536
00:35:33,180 --> 00:35:37,580
a title which he stole from the National Broadcasting Company's news information service. This is

537
00:35:37,580 --> 00:35:41,300
an intermediate news network that gathers, evaluates and transmits information about

538
00:35:41,300 --> 00:35:46,100
UFOs among radio news reporters throughout the country. And now this gets into the question

539
00:35:46,100 --> 00:35:51,660
that you were saying about the press or media attention to UFOs and the sightings. What

540
00:35:51,660 --> 00:35:55,860
do you guys do? Well, there hasn't been enough real credible coverage of UFO sightings because

541
00:35:55,860 --> 00:36:01,380
of all the bad kind of reports that came out of the really early 50s. Getting back to the

542
00:36:01,380 --> 00:36:06,700
old 1950 science fiction type of horror films that we came, it gave a really bad impression

543
00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:10,940
in the minds of most of the media. And now finally there is an organization which we

544
00:36:10,940 --> 00:36:17,940
call Newfoundin. I know. And what we do, what the organization itself does is that it's

545
00:36:17,940 --> 00:36:23,100
comprised totally of news broadcasters all around the country and in Canada who are finally

546
00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:27,980
offering a serious approach to the coverage of UFO related news stories. And what it does,

547
00:36:27,980 --> 00:36:35,700
in essence, is that we subscribe to your service here. MBC is about to, yes, MBC Radio AM.

548
00:36:35,700 --> 00:36:39,500
We have a mother station here in New York. I won't give the name of it, but in most of

549
00:36:39,540 --> 00:36:43,460
the, in every major city in the country there is a station. So what happens is that when

550
00:36:43,460 --> 00:36:49,500
a sighting occurs in a local town or small or small towns, big cities or whatever, it's

551
00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:53,620
up to the individual stations that are involved with the network whether or not they want

552
00:36:53,620 --> 00:36:58,540
to get local coverage, national coverage or whatever. And they do this by deciding through

553
00:36:58,540 --> 00:37:02,860
the news directors, through their own reporters and through using the representatives of the

554
00:37:02,860 --> 00:37:07,940
large UFO organizations in America in deciding whether or not the sightings, in fact, are

555
00:37:07,980 --> 00:37:13,180
real or phonies. And you get a lot of stories about like in 73 there was a, during the big

556
00:37:13,180 --> 00:37:16,540
flap in the South that there was one story that came out that made a lot of headlines

557
00:37:16,540 --> 00:37:21,340
of 50 or 60 people in a small southern town, Sarah, a UFO and it made headlines. But it

558
00:37:21,340 --> 00:37:25,260
turns out that it was a fine type of UFO because it said UFO on it.

559
00:37:25,260 --> 00:37:30,660
That is a guy who wants to say, sure, you know, and those are the kind of things that we don't

560
00:37:30,660 --> 00:37:35,380
need. And so what the organization does is that it sets a precedent. It's bringing newsmen

561
00:37:35,420 --> 00:37:38,740
together finally to cover this UFO phenomenon.

562
00:37:38,740 --> 00:37:42,700
And to afford some responsibility to the information that has passed along to people.

563
00:37:42,700 --> 00:37:44,100
Yes. And in addition to...

564
00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:45,820
When did you see your first UFO?

565
00:37:46,660 --> 00:37:49,140
Back in April of 1975.

566
00:37:49,140 --> 00:37:49,860
You've seen one, huh?

567
00:37:49,860 --> 00:37:56,180
Only one. And I didn't get a very close look at it. I was sent down to North Carolina by Dr. J.

568
00:37:56,180 --> 00:37:56,700
Allen Hineck.

569
00:37:56,700 --> 00:37:58,180
Truly, it's been a guest on our program.

570
00:37:58,180 --> 00:38:01,900
The Center for UFO Studies sent me down there to investigate a wave of sightings that broke

571
00:38:01,940 --> 00:38:07,860
out over a four or five day period between 50 and 60 law enforcement officers were reporting

572
00:38:07,860 --> 00:38:09,420
a strange object in the sky.

573
00:38:09,420 --> 00:38:12,340
It couldn't be explained away by normal terms.

574
00:38:12,340 --> 00:38:15,260
And I went down there, got total cooperation from the FAA.

575
00:38:15,260 --> 00:38:16,100
They were baffled.

576
00:38:16,100 --> 00:38:18,300
They couldn't figure out what was going on.

577
00:38:18,300 --> 00:38:19,620
They had nothing on radar.

578
00:38:19,620 --> 00:38:22,820
I mean, this craft was doing 90 degree angle turns over officers' heads.

579
00:38:22,820 --> 00:38:29,580
It was shining rays of spotlight down on top of officers and engulfing them in their cars

580
00:38:29,620 --> 00:38:31,940
and just huge lights.

581
00:38:31,940 --> 00:38:33,420
And a lot of witnesses involved.

582
00:38:33,420 --> 00:38:34,860
Too many law enforcement officers.

583
00:38:34,860 --> 00:38:36,620
And this is all around the world.

584
00:38:36,620 --> 00:38:38,020
We have...

585
00:38:38,020 --> 00:38:42,060
The key factor that maintains the people's interests is credibility.

586
00:38:42,060 --> 00:38:45,980
Because we get authentic sightings from pilots, radar operators.

587
00:38:45,980 --> 00:38:50,380
So basically what you do is you sift out all the dingolings and midget men in bushel baskets

588
00:38:50,380 --> 00:38:54,380
and basements so that that does not become a factor in the public consciousness.

589
00:38:54,380 --> 00:38:59,300
And if it does turn out that a case that is being looked into,

590
00:38:59,300 --> 00:39:02,020
it turns out to be a phony case, then we want to talk about that.

591
00:39:02,020 --> 00:39:02,420
You do.

592
00:39:02,420 --> 00:39:02,460
You do.

593
00:39:02,460 --> 00:39:03,020
That on the right.

594
00:39:03,020 --> 00:39:03,660
You do as well.

595
00:39:03,660 --> 00:39:04,740
You have to.

596
00:39:04,740 --> 00:39:09,180
And in the case of Mrs. Betty Hill here, something that was not known until a while ago,

597
00:39:09,180 --> 00:39:11,620
her case took place in 1961.

598
00:39:11,620 --> 00:39:17,820
Nine years later, in 1970, the Air Force finally released confirmation that the night that the hills

599
00:39:17,820 --> 00:39:22,700
were driving through the White Mountains, radar picked up a UFO landing in the White Mountain

600
00:39:22,700 --> 00:39:27,780
area at precisely the same moment that they were driving along and later radar also tracked

601
00:39:27,780 --> 00:39:29,700
the UFO taking off.

602
00:39:29,700 --> 00:39:33,020
There was nothing interesting done by the Air Force incidentally about that case.

603
00:39:33,020 --> 00:39:36,180
You would think that when the story of Mrs. Hill first came out,

604
00:39:36,180 --> 00:39:41,060
the place would have been a banner headline at least in a small newspaper somewhere in the world.

605
00:39:41,060 --> 00:39:44,260
But one of the PhDs, there have been three PhD theses he's done on UFOs.

606
00:39:44,260 --> 00:39:46,140
One of them dealt with press coverage.

607
00:39:46,140 --> 00:39:49,980
And one of the points that made that there was a failure to follow up on cases and distinguish

608
00:39:49,980 --> 00:39:51,460
between the sense and the nonsense.

609
00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:52,500
It's an isolated event.

610
00:39:52,500 --> 00:39:53,500
Every one.

611
00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:56,300
Why do you think it is that there is a rash of sightings?

612
00:39:56,300 --> 00:39:59,580
That when there's, for example, the Pascagoula, Mississippi and all of a sudden they were

613
00:39:59,580 --> 00:40:00,580
all over the place.

614
00:40:00,580 --> 00:40:01,580
Is it?

615
00:40:01,580 --> 00:40:02,940
That's a misperception, Tom.

616
00:40:02,940 --> 00:40:05,580
What we're dealing with is the difference because it's press scenes.

617
00:40:05,580 --> 00:40:06,580
Yes.

618
00:40:06,580 --> 00:40:09,100
A lot of people have that impression.

619
00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:14,100
That rant of sightings began actually six weeks before the Pascagoula case.

620
00:40:14,100 --> 00:40:17,620
I know I was on the radio and on the phone talking to police officers in Georgia.

621
00:40:17,620 --> 00:40:22,500
What varies is not so much the number of sightings per month or per year or something like that,

622
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:24,660
but the press coverage of those sightings.

623
00:40:24,660 --> 00:40:27,900
Once a wire service picks up a sighting and suddenly everybody around the country knows

624
00:40:27,900 --> 00:40:31,940
somebody's seeing UFOs, they're not the first if they see one they can stand up and be counted.

625
00:40:31,940 --> 00:40:35,540
And especially for those respectable people, it takes away from the onus.

626
00:40:35,540 --> 00:40:38,180
One of my goals is to lift the laughter curtain.

627
00:40:38,180 --> 00:40:40,060
An appropriate press coverage helps do that.

628
00:40:40,060 --> 00:40:43,300
Let's get rid of a couple of myths too about who sees you at all, right?

629
00:40:43,300 --> 00:40:46,340
The dingling nonsense that you always hear.

630
00:40:46,340 --> 00:40:48,100
The Gallup poll of November 1973.

631
00:40:48,100 --> 00:40:49,100
Incidentally, let me say it.

632
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:50,100
What do I have?

633
00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:52,100
Three minutes and I know you have some more data.

634
00:40:52,100 --> 00:40:57,500
This is part of the data that the Gallup poll of November 1973 not only showed that a majority

635
00:40:57,500 --> 00:41:02,260
of adult Americans believe in UFOs, but showed that the greater the education of the individual,

636
00:41:02,260 --> 00:41:06,620
the more likely to believe in UFOs, which again is the reverse of what the skeptics say.

637
00:41:06,620 --> 00:41:11,340
A poll of engineers and scientists showed that a majority of them believe in UFOs.

638
00:41:11,340 --> 00:41:13,780
Both polls checked to see how many people had seen UFOs.

639
00:41:13,780 --> 00:41:17,460
Again, the greater the education, the more likely to have seen one as well as believe

640
00:41:17,460 --> 00:41:18,460
in one.

641
00:41:18,460 --> 00:41:22,460
The engineers and scientists, 8% think they've definitely seen one with another 14% saying

642
00:41:22,460 --> 00:41:23,460
maybe.

643
00:41:23,460 --> 00:41:26,180
I should stress this is a worldwide phenomenon.

644
00:41:26,180 --> 00:41:32,660
This document of data, and I'll just mention it, covers more than 830 landing trace cases

645
00:41:32,660 --> 00:41:35,100
from 39 countries.

646
00:41:35,100 --> 00:41:38,500
Cases where UFOs have been seen on or near the ground and when they leave one finds

647
00:41:38,500 --> 00:41:41,540
physical changes in the soil and the vegetation.

648
00:41:41,540 --> 00:41:44,500
About a quarter of those cases involve reports of critters.

649
00:41:44,500 --> 00:41:46,740
We're talking 39 countries.

650
00:41:46,740 --> 00:41:50,580
So out of context, things look a lot stranger than they do in context.

651
00:41:50,580 --> 00:41:56,180
If somebody had reported the Pascua Gula cases, close encounter number 835, creature report

652
00:41:56,180 --> 00:42:01,260
number 219, abduction number 18, it would have been on the back page of the paper.

653
00:42:01,260 --> 00:42:05,860
In one minute, why should we care or worry about flying soil?

654
00:42:05,860 --> 00:42:06,860
Pragmatic reasons.

655
00:42:06,860 --> 00:42:11,260
We're spending a lot of billions of dollars to develop better propulsion systems.

656
00:42:11,260 --> 00:42:14,460
D1, space shuttle, none of these are competing with UFOs.

657
00:42:14,460 --> 00:42:17,860
So if we say it's okay, we should be spending it to find out how these things work.

658
00:42:17,860 --> 00:42:20,140
We're spending a lot of money looking for life and outer space.

659
00:42:20,140 --> 00:42:21,820
The Viking program costs a billion dollars.

660
00:42:21,820 --> 00:42:23,220
Let's find out who's coming here.

661
00:42:23,220 --> 00:42:28,420
Perhaps the most important thing is it gives us a new view of our own place in the universe.

662
00:42:28,420 --> 00:42:32,580
Makes us a little less important than we'd like to think we are, that old ego bit again.

663
00:42:32,580 --> 00:42:36,820
And perhaps offers the only hope for a future for mankind if we start to think of ourselves

664
00:42:36,820 --> 00:42:37,820
as earthlings.

665
00:42:38,260 --> 00:42:42,020
Maybe our initial allegiance will be to the planet instead of individual countries waving

666
00:42:42,020 --> 00:42:43,260
atomic bombs at each other.

667
00:42:43,260 --> 00:42:45,580
There's nuclear physicists, bombs, scare the heck out of me.

668
00:42:45,580 --> 00:42:49,660
Tom, people are really trying to accept this UFO thing because more people are seeing them

669
00:42:49,660 --> 00:42:51,820
on a global scale.

670
00:42:51,820 --> 00:42:54,900
And you just can't get away from it when people see things and they report them.

671
00:42:54,900 --> 00:42:58,620
And especially the people who see them and don't report them who want to come out and

672
00:42:58,620 --> 00:43:02,380
talk about these things that we have a ridicule aspect that we have to deal with here.

673
00:43:02,380 --> 00:43:04,940
And your organization is hopefully trying to stop that.

674
00:43:05,060 --> 00:43:07,460
Gentlemen, I thank you so much for sharing your time with us.

675
00:43:07,460 --> 00:43:09,660
Betty, thank you for your candid answers and tough questions.

676
00:43:09,660 --> 00:43:13,260
We'll continue after these announcements and tell you about the future on the next program.